Masculine Submission

No greater love has a man than to live his life for the one he loves

You don’t HAVE to be out

I recently came across an online discussion that started with the question “Why don’t male subs attend events?” It had actually started two years ago, run its course, and stopped. It received a bit of attention here and there, but a few days ago it became active again.

That question has as many answers as there are guys who don’t go to events. The reason really doesn’t matter. What bothers me is the response that guys get when they give a reason for not going to public events – because the vast majority of them were along the lines of, “There is no valid reason for not going to events. You are a sad loser who deserves to be a sad loser if you don’t go to events. So shut up, you sad loser, or go to an event.”

I called the group on developing a bully mentality. Of course, this was immediately met by a chorus of denials. “We aren’t bullying people. We are just trying to force them to do something we want. If it is something that scares them or might damage their professional life; then they just need to man up. What matters is that they do what we want.”

How is that not being a bully?

The original question seemed to be asking for an honest answer. Perhaps enough honest answers from submales about why they are staying away in droves would provide event organizers with some ideas on how to attract them. However, when honest answers (or what appear to be honest answers) are offered; then what happens is someone – or a chorus of someones – seems to feel the need to tear apart the reasons that have been offered. Exactly how does this promote communication?

The answer is that it doesn’t.

From my limited sample of reading other submissive guys’ answers, it seems that a lot of them don’t go to events because they PERCEIVE that they will be treated as second-class citizens. Even if those perceptions are totally false, they are going to use them as a gauge because that is all they have. Simply telling them that their perceptions are wrong is not going to really convince them. Telling them that they are wrong and pointing out that they are a sad, strange little man who is very lonely will only make them feel attacked, and they will clam up.

The fact is that there is a very vocal group of BDSM’ers who seem to believe that the proper answer to every question is: “Just go to a munch!” They say this based on their history, and it’s valid beyond impeachment for them. But they either can’t or won’t see that their history, and their current life, isn’t what some people want or need.

Let’s pretend there are two types of people in the world. Joiners like to go to social events, like munches, because they like being around people and meeting people and they can almost always find someone who is interesting and fun to talk to. Shunners are people who don’t like to go to social events, like munches, because they don’t like being around people, especially people they don’t know, and who usually find being in groups to be hard work and anxiety-inducing and they rarely, if ever, find someone who is fun and exciting to talk to.

If you call them “introverts” and “extroverts” it probably makes more sense, but I don’t like those terms for reasons that don’t belong in this post. For now, there are two kinds of people.

Joiners generally have no problem getting their social needs met, as should be obvious. Shunners, on the other hand, have major problems. Rather than berating Shunners for not being Joiners, or at least not behaving like Joiners every so often, why don’t we ask Shunners what would make them feel more comfortable in joining a group that shares an interest with them?

Or, better yet, why not drop this insistence that everyone become part of a group in the first place? BDSM activities are very personal for a lot of people, and they have no desire to associate with other people based solely on BDSM. It doesn’t matter why they don’t want to. It’s THEIR LIFE. They get to choose if they are out or not.

We have to quit trying to force everyone to conform to what works for us. I love submitting to Mistress Delila, and I think that the F/m dynamic we have is wonderful and amazing and it makes both of us feel loved and appreciated and unique. But I wouldn’t suggest that EVERYONE try it. It’s a shoe that doesn’t fit on everyone. Even within the subgroup that practices F/m lifestyles, very few people would feel comfortable with the exact level that we have found. That’s why it’s so wonderful that the two of us found each other – or why any two people who are in love discover each other.

In the end, a closet is simply a compartment. Living in a compartment built by someone else is stifling and hurtful. But living in a compartment that allows a person to have a peaceful and fulfilling life is, by definition, peaceful and fulfilling.

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10 thoughts on “You don’t HAVE to be out

  1. I dipped into the discussion, then right back out as it became increasingly hostile. That said, I entirely agree with you here. And I have substantial experience with being treated as that “second-class citizen” in more than one group.

    In my experience, groups in the South are heavily male-het-dom, except the ones that are specifically female-dominant. Either one is hard on the male sub. That’s changing over time — generationally, I believe — but it was still a rough initiation.

  2. I’ve never been to a BDSM event, and don’t think I ever will. I just don’t see the need for it.

    Submission isn’t a kink I do for kicks, but how I express my love in a very intimate fashion. Since I have someone to submit to – and met her without going to any event – I have no desire to go discover other Dommes.

    I know that munches are just get-togethers for kinky folks to meet – but I guess I need somethings besides “yeah, I like pain and sex” to want to connect with someone. For social needs, I would rather have a backyard bar-b-q with a few friends. I don’t care if they are kinky or not.

    • Yes. Yes yes yes. I do enjoy going to the club for demos and to talk to people from time to time because I can LEARN things, but this isn’t a thing I feel that I could build a social life around, you know?

      I have no partner to play with, and that’s a sad situation all around, but using munches and club events as ways to meet submissive men has proven fruitless and frustrating. It’s a huge investment of energy for very little return.

      So I do wind up hanging out with friends. Some of whom are kinky, though unavailable, so at least I have folks to talk about it with closer to hand.

  3. God fucking dammit I hate that “just come to a much sometime!” mentality.

    Fuckers, if it was “just” a munch, I’d do it, but it’s a huge investment of time and energy for me. I’m disabled. I have depression and panic attacks to contend with, and while the former just keeps me from wanting to go out, the latter makes it VERY SCARY to go out sometimes, since I’m risking a meltdown when I do. I want to get to know people ONLINE first, because it’s easier for me. But no, it’s “go to a munch, come to the club, blah blah blah blah blah!” sometimes with a side of “GET THERAPY! THAT FIXES EVERYTHING!”

    Not to mention I’m thoroughly nocturnal and munches around here tend to happen before I’m even awake.

    There’s a lot of like-minded folks out there to talk to online, but few of them in my local area, which makes making connections locally really a pain.


    I agree, though. I’m not a joiner. I tolerate. And I’d like to see spaces made more comfortable for people like me.

    A huge part of it, sadly, comes down to “I live in a really backwards part of the country, and many of the kinky people here are also huge bigots, and so I have to be on my guard at events because I may be talking to someone who doesn’t regard me as fully human.” And there’s no screening for that. At least, nobody seems WILLING TO DO IT. If I didn’t have to be on my guard all the time, I’d be more able to cope with the strain it puts on me to just be there.

    And as nagadikandang said, heavily it’s heavily cishet-male-dom around here. And white. It’s pretty stifling. I’d go to more events if there were more submissive men attending, so yeah, I’d love to solve this friggin’ issue.

  4. My boy and I socialise (go to munches and events) and enjoy them but I have always got the feeling that it would be hard for a man on his own. Mind you, I think it would be hard for a submissive on their own, and indeed any introvert (sorry) on their own.
    Of course, if you want to meet people then you need to make contact somehow (online or in person) but if you’re happy with your kink as it is then there’s no reason why you should.
    Quite often though I think the ‘go to a munch’ crowd are responding to the ‘I want x but don’t want to make any effort to find it’ posts. Perhaps the response becomes a habit.

    • I have no idea if it is harder for a submissive to go to an event than it is for a dominant. Definitely, any introvert is going to have to push to go to a public meeting with strangers. (No need to be sorry.)

      I’m a big supporter of the idea, “If you want something different; then you have to do something different.” I just believe there are a lot more “something different” out there than is usually offered as a valid alternative to doing nothing.

      I agree with you that the “go to a munch” response becomes a habit. That’s part of the reason I want to call it out. Knee-jerk responses aren’t intentionally unhelpful, and I am not saying that the response is actually bad advice for everyone. But no one-size-fits-all advice is good for everyone. What is more troubling is the defense of this knee-jerk reaction as the only appropriate response, and the attack of anyone who says other options can be viable.

      Which is a long way of saying, it sounds like we are on the same page.

  5. Pingback: Go to a munch, go to a munch » Not Just Bitchy

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